royallangnickel

	Thank you for attending the Royal Langnickel Aqualon Wisp Brush Seminar with Betsy H. Edwards CCD, CPD. *This Seminar Archive may be saved to your hard-drive or printed for personal use only. It may not be reproduced or distributed without written permission.* ROYAL LANGNICKEL AQUALON WISP BRUSH SEMINAR TRANSCRIPT LOG OF 7-9-04
ViaVon : OK EVERYONE -- IF YOU'LL TAKE YOUR SEATS, PLEASE :-) :-) ViaVon : drumroll ViaVon : Good Evening Everyone! David and I, along with our Guest Speaker, Betsy Edwards want to thank you for coming to our Seminar on Royal Langnickel's Wisp Brushes! ViaVon : Just to remind you again on what we expect from you this evening ... ViaVon : First, please refrain from speaking during Betsy's Presentation. She will let us know when she is ready for your Questions. ViaVon : To put yourself in the queue for the Question and Answer session, please type ONLY an * asterisk. Nothing more. ViaVon : Please test that now. Enter ONLY an * for yourself. Pam : * BonnieG-KS : * PaulineTC : * LINDA-NB : * JudiM-OR : * snowcat : * PatG-WA : * SandyJ-CT : * syberella@hotmail.com : * EPH-LA : * LindaS-PA : * JoF-OC : * MarionR-TX : * DottiB-PA : * Lillian-0n : * Sandi_R-VA : * sylvia : * MaryEllen-TEXAS : * GlendaD : * SusanV-NL : * Donna_L-MS : * ViaVon : WELL DONE! Did everyone get their test * done ok? ViaVon : If you did not, Please test that now. Enter ONLY an * for yourself. Mary-Can : * CarolynT : * marytn : * juned-nc : * ViaVon : Good !!! Next then -- wait for your name to be called to ask your question. When Betsy has answered your question, she will confirm for you that your question is concluded. Please reply yes or finish asking your question. DennisC-NH : * ViaVon : Remember, please do NOT type your question or enter it until your name has been called. ViaVon : At that point the next person in queue will be advised it's their turn. :-) ViaVon : This may sound a bit stuffy but it allows for everyone to have a turn asking and getting answers to their questions in a way that doesn't confuse both you, our Guest and Betsy, our Guest Speaker. :-) ViaVon : Thanks for your cooperation! ViaVon : Also -- if you'd like a personal reminder to your email on our seminars, please set up a user account for yourself at our main website. :-) ViaVon : And now ... let's get on with the FUN!! handing over microphone to Betsy ViaVon : WELCOME BETSY EDWARDS!
Betsy : Hello everyone. Thank you for joining us tonight for a discussion of the Royal & Langnickel Wisp brush. Von has asked that I first tell you a little about about Royal & Langnickel Brush Manufacturing Co, what I do with Royal Brush, the Royal Ambassador program and a bit about the Decorative Arts Collection WHEW!!! Royal is located in Merrillville, IN - just outside of Chicago, IL. It is a family owned business. There is also a UK office in Wednesbury, West Midlands. The Dovellos brothers, George, Bill & Gus, are the owners and hands-on operators of the company. George’s son, Dino, is also actively involved in day-to-day operations. The company started as a sponge importer and has developed into one of the largest brush companies in the U.S. Yes, they still import and sell sponges, but a vast array of other artist supplies has been added. Several years ago, Royal purchased the well-respected Langnickle Brush Co. and added those high quality products to its line. As head of the Ambassador Program, I am the "mother hen" for 15 Royal Ambassadors - an elite teaching group of outstanding decorative artists. I also plan educational and special events at 7 conventions and trade shows each year. In December, I plan and host the Ambassador meeting in Merrillville, IN - that's when the Ambassadors learn about and test new products and help to set goals for the upcomming year. The Decorative Arts Collection (DAC) is my true LOVE! We are the only organization in the world dedicated to preserving our heritage of decorative painting. We collect the best in contemporary and historic decorative art. A 5 member Board of Trustees governs the DAC - Andy Jones is the current president. Other Board members are Shirley Miller, Shea Szachzra, Julie Reeves and myself. I hope to be able to give you lots more information about the DAC, our annual art competition, etc. in a later seminar. Now - the Wisp brush! This exciting new brush is a “must have” for every decorative painter! Each brush is made from the highest quality Taklon and is available in 4 brush head styles: flat, angular, filbert and fan. Each head style comes in 5 sizes: 1/8”, 1/4”, 3/8”, 1/2” and 3/4”. In my opinion, the most versatile are the 3/8” and the 1/2” sizes. However, the smaller sizes are great for adding vein lines to flower petals and for highlighting smaller areas. AND…. I really LOVE the 3/4” for cross-hatching larger areas – let’s face it – I like them all!!! You can use the Wisp to make grass, multiple flower stems and undulating curlicues. Beards and hair take on new dimension when painted with the Wisp! The Wisp flat is the ultimate cross hatching brush. The Wisp filbert is great for adding detail lines to rounded flower petals and for painting evergreen boughs. Try the Wisp fan brush for unique spattering patterns. Loading the Wisp takes a little practice. However, I believe that you will find it much easier to load (and to paint with) than comb or rake brushes. Paint should be thinned slightly. The hairs of your brush should be moist. Load the brush fully with the thinned paint, then stroke back & forth on your palette a few times. To paint multiple parallel lines, use a very light touch. If you are heavy handed and apply too much pressure, the lines will run together. (Lines will also run together if there is too much water in the paint.) Look at the head of your brush – if paint has formed a web between the clumps of hairs, touch the brush to your palette several times until the web disappears. One of the things I love to do best with the Wisp is to make a simple basket weave pattern: just alternate horizontal and vertical strokes – then reverse in the row beneath your first row of strokes. (You can see examples of this on the sheet where I have shown multi-loading.) Yes, you can multi-load the Wisp! (I’ve had the best luck multi-loading the flat brush.) To double load, dip one corner into your first color – load the color to the middle of the brush – flip the brush and load the opposite corner with the second color. Viola! Multicolor strokes! To triple load, fully load the brush with the medium value/color; dip one corner of the brush into the darkest color (don’t load all the way to the middle); flip the brush and load the opposite corner with the lightest color. Now you have at least 3 colors in your strokes! This is terrific for plaids, cross-hatching and for borders. I think you’re going to have fun with these brushes! If you have already tried them, I’d love to hear what you have painted and what you think of the Wisp. If you have questions, please ask me
MarionR-TX : * ViaVon : applause ViaVon : Thank yoou Betsy!!! ViaVon : Marion, you may ask your question! Betsy : thak to all of youn MarionR-TX : Which is the best to get started with on a limited budget? Betsy : I think I'd purchase either the 3/8" or 1/2" flat MarionR-TX : Viacon said Leaves also? Betsy : vein lines in leaves are terrific with the Wisp snowcat : * Betsy : it's also possible to paint great evergreen boughs with the Wisp Betsy : yes, snowcat merrytoday_TX Betsy : do you have a question, snowcat? DennisC-NH : * snowcat : Where can I find art samples of what the wisp brush can do? DottiB-PA : * Betsy : check the archived worksheets ViaVon : Betsy's Seminar Archive will have a tutorial worksheet and literature for you upon exit :-) Betsy : there are examples of a basket, simple basket weave, candy canes, etc. Betsy : yes, Dennis? DennisC-NH : how do we get the worksheet ,,to get a better visual on what these brushes can do? ViaVon : Dottie -- your question is next Betsy : Von, can you esxplain? ViaVon : PLEASE REMEMBER EVERYONE -- TYPE AN * ASTERISK * TO PUT YOURSELF INTO QUEUE FOR ASKING YOUR QUESTIONS. :-) :-) Lena : * DottiB-PA : Do these brushes work well for scruffy bear fur, like boyds bear type fur? bettym-ca : * Betsy : for bear fur, I prefer the foliage brush - however, the Wisp is great to highlight the fur deborah@blendedpalette.com : * Betsy : bettym - your question? bettym-ca : is this brush similar to the rake brush MaryEllen-TEXAS : * Betsy : yes, similar to the rake/comb, but much easier to load and to paint with ViaVon : Lena, your question is next :-) Betsy : Lena, sorry I skipped you Lena : Can these brushes be used to dry brush? Also, many artists use a 'flicking' motion over a base coat, can these be used for that as well? Betsy : The Wisp is really good for drybrushing - it's also good for "flicking" - remember, however, that it will give you wider spaced points of color Betsy : Mary-Ellen, do you have a ? ViaVon : Deborah is next Betsy : sorry - hope I get the hang of this soon :>) deborah@blendedpalette.com : are there any special cleaning concerns for these brushes, and also are there any artist books out that use these Betsy : so far, no books that I know of - Debby Forshey-Choma & Bobbie Campbell are planning on using the Wisp in their next books Betsy : Chris Thornton has several magazine articles in the works Betsy : As for cleaning... no special concerns ViaVon : MaryEllen -- your question is next then! Betsy : just clean as you would any other brush MaryEllen-TEXAS : You asked what we had painted with them....I used them the other day to do some candy canes and they worked GREAT! If you are familiar with Donna Lee Parella and the way she highlights her leaves..they are great for the final highlight/vein lines! Lena : * Betsy : Terrific! Thanks, Mary Ellen Betsy : is Lena next? MaryEllen-TEXAS : Great seminar, Betsy!! Betsy : Thanks, Mary Ellen! Dave : Lena, You are next Lena : I know these brushes are suppose to make it easier for us. But, should we feel like we're cheating if we use them instead of doing it the 'old fashioned' way? Betsy : cheating???? I think not. I'm all for preserving the old ways and for learning and using the latest techniques as well EPH-LA : * Dave : EPH, Your turn Betsy : EPH-LA - how can I help you? EPH-LA : Can the brushes be used with other paints besides acrylics, for instance the glass paints on the market? Betsy : Yes, they certainly can. I've also used them with watercolors, gouache and chalk Betsy : Ann Kingslan has been experimenting using them with Genesis paints ViaVon : does anyone else have any questions for Betsy? Betsy : I can hardly wait to see what Ann does with the Wisp MaryEllen-TEXAS : * Dave : Go for it, MaryEllen MaryEllen-TEXAS : Betsy, tell them how you can stripe a ribbon GREAT!!! MarionR-TX : Thank-you Betsy, ViaVon that was fun and informative. Please let me know when the package wisps in> ViaVon : Will do! Betsy : oooooh - striping a ribbon is easy with the Wisp MaryEllen-TEXAS : I paint a lot of animals....chickens, too...and they are great for FEATHERS!!!! and FUR!!!! Betsy : you just stroke following the edge linee of the ribbon ViaVon : which brush works best for that Betsy? Betsy : for the ribbon? ViaVon : yes Betsy : it all depends Betsy : if the ribbon is even at the start Betsy : I'd use the flat Betsy : if the ribbon end is angular, the angle LINDA-NB : * ViaVon : ok ... and does one use a half-load or a float or ? Betsy : for striping, I'd fully load the brush MaryEllen-TEXAS : * ViaVon : ok, and for highlighting? Betsy : LINDA? LINDA-NB : Any tricks you have learned from using these brushes you could share? Betsy : hmmmmm Betsy : the right amount of water in the paint is critical LINDA-NB : thank you Betsy : too much water and you get blobs of color, & the lines run together Lena : * Betsy : too little water and the brush drags on your surface and the color is uneven snowcat : * ViaVon : MaryEllen -- your inquiry is next :-) Betsy : always test the brush on your palette before going to your surface Betsy : use fresh paint MaryEllen-TEXAS : For those of us that get picky about 'veining' our roses...they are great for that, too! Betsy : choose your brush based on the size and shape of the object you're painting Betsy : MaryEllen - do you use a filbert or a flat for rose veining? MaryEllen-TEXAS : I use the flat for the 'inside'...coming off the 'cup' and the filbert for the 'outside' going in...hope that makes sense! LOL Betsy : very good sense, Mary Ellen! MaryEllen-TEXAS : sometimes the angle coming off the cup.... if the petal is 'tucked' in tight! MaryEllen-TEXAS : Very very little paint!!!! LIGHT LIGHT touch! Betsy : see, you're choosing the head shape to suit the shape of the space you're painting MaryEllen-TEXAS : yes, that's right....and I usually use a value a couple of shade lighter than the veins should be and do a wash over them... Joanie-NS : * Betsy : I tell people to paint with strokes like butterfly kisses MaryEllen-TEXAS : not only do you get the correct veining but you get your 'shading' done at the same time... ViaVon : Lena, your question is next Lena : Are these brushes loaded like a rake where you have to almost flatten it to load the bristles completely? Betsy : no - it isn't necessary to flatten like a rake Betsy : just stroke the brush head through your thinned paint Lena : Great...rakes can be tempermental! MaryEllen-TEXAS : I've thought about throwing my RAKES away!!!! LOL Betsy : you'll love the Wisp compared to the rake! Dave : Snowcat, it's your turn Betsy : save the rakes and make them into scruffy brushes ViaVon : lol snowcat : Regarding your tip - what is the paint consistency one would look for? Betsy : heavy cream is the best consistency for me Betsy : thhicker than India ink Betsy : Joannie - question? Joanie-NS : If you are in a real tight, small space do you just load part of the brush or mask out where you don't want the paint to go ? Betsy : I would use the 1/8" brush Betsy : if the 1/8 is too large, I think I'd just use a liner Joanie-NS : I've already ordered larger ones than 1/8 .... SandyJ-CT [0/] Disconnect:69.164.88.250 Betsy : in that case, use just the center "fingers" Joanie-NS : thanks, I could do that Betsy : don't load the outside "fingers" with color Joanie-NS : anxious to try them out ViaVon : how do you load just those center fingers ?? Betsy : Joannie, I can't wait to hear how you like them Betsy : Von, thin your paint, dip just the center fingers into the color and stroke on your palette to distribute the color evenly Joanie-NS : or pull a thin line of color to load from ViaVon : Ok, but for say a 1/4" brush -- those fingers will get in the way on a flat ViaVon : yep Joanie -- that makes sense :-) ViaVon : using a liner or similar Joanie-NS : yw, read it somewhere Betsy : yep, Von, you're right EPH-LA : * ViaVon : EPH -- you'r next! Joanie-NS : a liner or the edge of pallette knife EPH-LA : Why would you use the middle fingers instead of the end ones? It seems it would be easier to load just the ends. Betsy : you could load just one end or the other - why didn't I think of that?! ViaVon : rotfl EPH-LA : Okay, I just didn't understand if there was a difference in using the ends or not.. ViaVon : Anyone else have any questions for Betsy? Betsy : EPH - none at all - I just wasn't thinking straighht EPH-LA : Thanks, I understand. lol ViaVon : Any further questions regarding the WISP Brushes ??? ViaVon : If not -- I'd like Betsy to take a moment to talk about the DAC again, if she would, please?? Joanie-NS : Do you let each color dry before proceding Betsy : ok ViaVon : It's a very important program so when our questions are fully completed, let's take a moment for that. :-) Betsy : The DAC is the Decorative Arts Collection Betsy : It was founded in 1982 Betsy : It is dedicated to preserving and collectiong the best in historic & contemporary decorative painting & to educating the public about our art form Betsy : The Collection is housed in the SDP headquarters building in Wichita, KS Betsy : Our collection is valued at over a million $ ViaVon : SDP = Society oF Decorative Painters Betsy : We have examples of decorative painting from all over the world Betsy : The DAC has a 5 member Board of Trustees ViaVon : Betsy will be giving us a FULL presentation on this organization at a later time as well and we hope that you will make time to learn about it and what you can do to help support it. Meanwhile, Betsy, tell us also about the book DAC has just published, please? Betsy : We recently publishe A Sentimental Collection of Roses Betsy : there are more than 80 pieces pictured in the book Betsy : each artist wrote something about his/her feeling about roses, the piece he/she painted MaryEllen-TEXAS : it is AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Betsy : There are also instructions for 21 (I think that's the right number) of the pieces ViaVon : 22 patterns Betsy : It's a beautiful book! Betsy : thanks, Von ViaVon : And it's in stock with us, if you are interested in seeing photo excerpts from the book! Lena : Wonderful quality of pictures and stock that it's printed on! ViaVon : Home page -- see the "new products" at the bottom. David shows you a few of the inside pages. Betsy : all proceeds go to support the DAC Betsy : Gretchen Cagle was the overseer of the book's publication ViaVon : I truly canNOT tell you how important the DAC is and what they are doing. I encourage all of you to support it in whatever way you can. Our hobby -- our PASSION is being preserved for our future generations thru what they are doing. Betsy : Gretchen is a wonderful painter and a wonderful publisher! MaryEllen-TEXAS : I loan my books out but that one is not going anywhere!!! LOL ViaVon : Mine neither! lol Betsy : I'm guarding mine carefully ViaVon : Betsy -- thank you first, for the Wisp Brushes information! Thank you secondly, for what you do on behalf of DAC Joanie-NS : Thats a great idea for all of us that can't get to see the Collection for real ViaVon : I think this can comfortably conclude our Seminar !! Betsy : my pleasure in both cases ViaVon : Please feel free to visit as you wish! ViaVon : applause Betsy : thank you all for coming MaryEllen-TEXAS : applause PaulineTC : applause CarolynT : Thank you both!!! :) Lena : Thanks! Joanie-NS : applause SusanV-NL : thank you snowcat* : Thank you EPH-LA : Thanks, very informative! LINDA-NB : thank you KathleenL_Canada : applause Deb-OH : thank you MaryEllen-TEXAS : Thank you so much, BETSY!!!!!! ((((((((((((((((((GREAT SEMINAR!!!!!!!!!!)))))))))))))))))))))))))) ViaVon : Our Pleasure! Thank you ALL for coming! [The rest of the transcript dialogue is general visiting after a fun evening! :-)] JoR-IL : Thanks so much. Very informative k_sizemore : tHANK YOU Joanie-NS* : my pleasure, thankyou Von, Dave and Betsy - these seminars are fabulous Dave : Before anyone else leaves let me say that I hope to get the transcript on the site by Saturday JanieS-PA : JanieS-PAthanks to you both ViaVon* : Our pleasure -- truly! ViaVon : Thank you for coming, Janie! Joanie-NS : Thanks Dave, I was late snowcat : Dave, so you have the art samples up now? MaryEllen-TEXAS : THANK YOU ((((((((((((((VON)))))))))))))) and (((((((((((((((((DAVE)))))))))))))))))))))) for ALL YOU DO!!!! CarolynT : ....and we can pick up our worksheets at which exit? KathleenL_Canada : Betsy is there any other way to see the collection from here in Canada? ViaVon : Carollyn -- click on the Log Out Button here -- whisk you go to the WISP ! CarolynT : Thank you! ViaVon : Kathleen -- I'm sorry but Betsy left already. We can email her though! Dave : I don't understand your question, snowcat JanieS-PA : JanieS-PA* I enjoyed it Von, thanks for the heads up Sandi_R-VA : One question, where can we get to the worksheets? KathleenL_Canada : ok thanks ViaVon : Snow -- are you talking about the Tutorial Worksheets or the Book? snowcat : Dave and ViaVon... ViaVon : Sandi -- click on the Log Out button above -- you'll be whisked away to the WISP brushes! ViaVon : Yes Snow? Lillian-0n : Thanks so much ViaVon : Thank you for coming! Sandi_R-VA : Thanks a bunch, and thanks for such great seminar snowcat : does the worksheet show a sample of a painting done with the wips? KathleenL_Canada : thank you both for the evening ViaVon : Our pleasure, Sandi! snowcat : wips=wisp ViaVon : Yes the literature does Dave : yes, snowcat ViaVon : Thank you (((Kathleen))) snowcat : Thank you ViaVon and Dave snowcat : Bye Dave : take care Dave : take care, Kathleen MaryEllen-TEXAS : Nite, Kathleen!!!! ViaVon : nighters Kathleen! Joanie-NS : doesn't matter what time it is lol Sandi_R-VA : Janie Savage? ViaVon : Debbie -- hello! I'm sorry you missed the Seminar but there will be a full and complete transcript of the chat log tomorrow! debbie : Thanks Von, I just got home and saw the email. ViaVon : Is this MY Debbie R ??? or ... sorry ... which deb are you? lol Sandi_R-VA : Janie are you Gardenangel2? JanieS-PA : JanieS-PA* Nope sorry! ViaVon : Even my daughter-in-law is named Debbie! lol MaryEllen-TEXAS : I'm going nite, nite, too...Von, I'll talk to you tomorrow! Hug Sweet Dave for me!!!!! Hugs around the room!!!! Sandi_R-VA : oh, someone in pa has same name and initials Sandi_R-VA : sorry debbie : No, Debbie in Georgia. Will you post to one of the list a reminder about the transcipt tomorrow? ViaVon : Night night ((((((Mare))))))) love N hugs talk tomorrow! Dave : Take care, MaryEllen Sandi_R-VA : ok, good night everyone Dave : nite, Sandi MaryEllen-TEXAS : Love and hugs to you both and THANKS again for having us!!!!! ViaVon : Debbie -- not usually, I don't. Some groups get annoyed so I try not to over kill my welcome with that kind of stuff. ViaVon : Night Sandi! Thank you for coming MaryEllen-TEXAS : MaryEllen has left the room!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Sandi_R-VA : welcome, will see you on the next seminar debbie : Ok, I'll write myself a note. ViaVon : Debbie -- just put a big postie on your fridge to check by Saturday night. :-) JanieS-PA : JanieS-Pa* Not a problem Sandi, but am an avid gardener!!! ViaVon : Janie works for a garden center too! lol ViaVon : and she's a terrific painter who finds some of THEEEEEEE best thrift store goodies! ViaVon : those plates were to die for, Janie! JanieS-PA : JanieS-Pa* boy do you have a good memory Von ViaVon : Kathy -- where in MI are you ?? I am originally from Fremont and then Grand Rapids in early days ViaVon : Janie -- how could I not. You got such a value on those plates and I loved how you painted the cherries and strawberrys to coordinate with the preprinted text -- perfect! JanieS-PA : JanieS-Pa* why thank you Von. Deb_in_SC : dang :) Dave : I'm originally from Bryn Mawr, Pa ViaVon : ((((((Deb))))) hi darlin! You missed the seminar! lol Dave : Hi Deb Dave : welcome anyway Deb_in_SC : I know I thought it was at 9 :( just sw the time and grabbbed dinner and ran in her :( ViaVon : lol Deb_in_SC : want some pizza still hot ViaVon : awwww it'll be fully archived, Deb -- sorry you missed the chat part. ViaVon : lolol love pizza! Dave : poor Deb Deb_in_SC : its not delivery its digorno! JanieS-PA : That was a steal wasn't it????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Deb_in_SC* : of course! hehe ViaVon : Deb -- these chats are almost always at 8 ET ViaVon : Janie -- they were more than a steal ROTFL I was GREEN with envy! Deb_in_SC : sighs i missed a great one tooI have wanted to learn more about those brushes JanieS-PA : would you believe that I just got the hang of sending these messages. I kept typing my name over and over, duh! ViaVon* : Deb -- you haven't missed a thing honey ... you'll get to read the entire script by tomorrow! Deb_in_SC : isgh will be packign tommorow leave for CE and BEE on Sunday morn Deb_in_SC : but dang sure will be checking it out when I get back! ViaVon : Janie -- oh no! I'm so sorry! lolol You should have private messaged me for help. Next time, just double click on my name and it pops up a private message box ViaVon : ok ... it'll be here when you get back, Deb! Deb_in_SC : woksheets to? :) ViaVon : bring me back a treat! snicker Deb_in_SC : you knwo it Deb_in_SC : ;) ViaVon : yeppers Deb -- all worksheets are archived for posterity! ViaVon : ((((((JoaniE)))) Dave : Joanie, long time no see. Hehehe JanieS-PA : not to worry Von, I've got it now. Off to the workroom , bye and thanks again!! Joanie-NS* : Sorry, froze up on me ViaVon : byeybye Janie! thanks for coming! Deb_in_SC : Nanie sorry I missed it! Deb_in_SC : akk Janie ViaVon : Joanie -- do you need a sweater? lol Dave : take care, Janie Deb_in_SC : dang fingers imagine how I paint! lol ViaVon : rotfl deb Dave : Hi Lisa ViaVon : HI Lisa! I'm so sorry, our seminar has just concluded. The transcript will be in full archive format though by tomorrow night and the worksheets are available now by click on the Log Out button. Lisa_TN : darn....oh well was trying to get in for 2 hours.... ViaVon : Lisa -- what happened? ViaVon : :-( :-( Lisa_TN : had to download java so that took some time Lisa_TN : I'll catch it next time ViaVon : oh nooooooooo Lisa! I'm so sorry! ViaVon : Lisa, you'll be able to read/review the entire chat transcript by tomorrow though, ok! Lisa_TN : I'll do that thanks! And we'll cut it off at this point because the visiting went on for quite some time! Join us next time, won't you? :-)